Propylene Glycol (PG)

Discussion in 'Blood, Hair & Saliva Testing' started by debator, May 24, 2006.

  1. debator

    debator New Member

    Paul Mitchell 3 doesn't contain Propylene Glycol. Therefore, it's ineffective. ???

    Hi everyone,
    Months ago we seemed to determine on this messageboard that Propylene Glycol (and not EDTA, like we thought before) was the main active ingredient in those 'detox shapoos' -- Clear Choice, Zydot and whatnot. An amendment was made to the FAQ:
    http://www.marijuana.com/420/showthread.php?t=34343&page=3&pp=10
    which stated just that.

    Well, if it's true that Propylene Glycol *is* the main ingredient in 'detox' shampoo, then Paul Mitchell Shampoo Three -- the shampoo that a couple of users here say that they use daily --- can't be effective, since Propylene Glycol isn't one of its ingredients!! The reason that Paul Mitchell Shampoo Three started to get mentioned as being good to use as a 'detox' shampoo was because several months ago, 'EDTA' was considered by people here to be the main ingredient of 'detox' shampoos, and Paul Mitchell Shampoo Three has like 3 different kinds of EDTA in it.

    See here for the list of ingredients in Paul Mitchell Shampoo Three:
    http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=10005006
  2. Secs

    Secs New Member

    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the Paul Mitchell Treatment, not the shampoo, is what has been determined to be effective.
  3. 1tokeovertheline

    1tokeovertheline New Member

    The treatment I used was Paul Mitchell 3 shampoo and Aloe Rid Deep Clarifying Treatment and passed with 30 days clean. TF and debator had discussed that Propylene Glycol was the ingredient that was effective and not the EDTA. I didn't agree because there wasn't any proof. To my knowledge the proof was never submitted. My treatment contained both ingedients. The PM 3 shampoo has 3 EDTA and the Aloe Rid Deep Clarifying Treatment contained the Propylene Glycol as a main ingredient. I still am not convinced which ingredient is key in passing the hair test. I just know that I passed. Without doing a series of hair test using one and then the other in a controlled experiment, I don't see how it is possible to reach a conclusion. Even then it would have to be done on different people with different metabolisms to see if it would work on everyone.
  4. JBMan

    JBMan New Member

    Cigar Shop help..?

    So I was in a cigar shop buying a b day present for a friend and i came across the stuff you put in the humidifier which is a mix of water and propylene glycol. I remeber smeone saying this on the site so i bought the bottle. Do you think its safe to use this in my hair? i'm a little nervous and it smells a little funky. I think i will wash it into my hair while the PM3 is being scrubbed in. n e thoughts on this?
  5. 1tokeovertheline

    1tokeovertheline New Member

    It's your head. Does the bottle have any warnings on it or cautions about contact with the skin? It is used in many products, but I am not sure what the concentration is. It is one of the main ingredients in the Aloe Rid Deep Clarifying treatment, but again what is the strength, I don't know.
    Check out this wikipedia link and decide for yourself.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
  6. intrepeds

    intrepeds New Member

    i would make sure of one thing 100%, make sure this stuff does NOT get into your EYES period especially if your using a concentrated chemical. you don't want to go blind from trying to clean your hair out of thc metabolites :eek:
  7. cyclops

    cyclops New Member

    Edta

    As, a research chemist, I can assure everyone that EDTA is NOT the active ingredient in detox shampoos. EDTA (ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid) is an amine-based compound that chelates various inorganic cations, e.g. potassium, sodium, magnesium cations etc. It is found in many shampoos and is an additive provided to remove ions found in "hard water" (water containing significant amounts of these ions), it is also present in many laundry detergents and is used orally to treat people for heavy metal poisioning, e.g. lead poisioning. EDTA can only complex with cations of a certain size (as they need to fit into the chelation centre). THC, and its primary metabolites, are large organic compounds (meaning they are composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms), that do not have any cationic sites - if they did the compounds would be water soluble rather than fat soluble. There is absolutely no way that any mechanism can exisit whereby EDTA aids in removal of THC from ones hair.
    Presumably, the premise behind the use of alcohols (polypropylene glycol, methanol etc) to remove THC from hair is they dissolve most organic compounds but are also water soluble. Thus, if the alcoholic solvent can penetrate the site where the active compound is stored, it will dissolve it and the compound can then be washed away with water. My guess is, solvent penetration into the hair is not very efficient but it cant do any harm....
  8. intrepeds

    intrepeds New Member

    since your a chemist why don't you conduct a few small experiments regarding the matter, because as you know hypothesis can be dramatically different from experimental results
  9. cyclops

    cyclops New Member

    since your a chemist why don't you conduct a few small experiments regarding the matter, because as you know hypothesis can be dramatically different from experimental results


    ...conducting the experiments is not a problem, analyzing the results of the experiments is - I do not currently have access to a GC-MS and even if I did, the results would not be directly comparable to those obtained by a certified lab even if I used identical extraction/analysis methods (different instument, and sensitivity levels etc.)....
  10. HOPING

    HOPING New Member

    Rubbing Alcohol?

    Chemist,

    Would Washing Hair With Rubbing Alcohol Then Be A Smart Thing To Do?
  11. 1tokeovertheline

    1tokeovertheline New Member

    No. It wouldn't.
  12. cyclops

    cyclops New Member

    HOPING,


    According to several sources, THC and its metabolites are soluble in lipids (fats), alcohols, and other polar organic solvents. However, I have not been able to find the solubility levels for these compounds in different alcohols so I don't know how rubbing alcohol compares to methanol or ethanol.

    I just googled the effects of using rubbing alcohol on hair and found this literature on the product Minoxidil which is a Rogaine product:

    Available in over the counter formulations, Minoxidil contains as much as 60% rubbing alcohol, which dries the scalp. Research has shown that when it dries on your hair, it actually weakens and damages the hair shafts themselves, making them dry and brittle...... So, rubbing alcohol is the main ingredient in this over the counter hair growth lotion.

    This website also has a suggestion on how to wash dreadlocks (tip 8) and rubbing alcohol was used ! http://www.ehow.com/tips_17123.html


    Based on these facts, I dont see that washing your hair with rubbing alcohol would do significant harm (other than dry your hair out) and a postwash with the aloe rid shampoo should remoisturize the hair but I can't say for sure... Has anyone ever tried this?

    Overall, any solvent that weakens the hair, is water soluble AND dissolves THC metabolites could be effective to help remove THC metabolites from hair. This could be a worthwhile treatment to try before the vinegar/clean and clear/tide treatment (the alcohol would need to be washed out before this treatment begins though otherwise it will sting like hell) and then again once the Tide has been washed out to dissolve and remove any partially exposed THC carboxlic acid residue.

    Please bare in mind this is all speculation which is based on the various information I have read and from what I know of the chemical properties and behaviour of THC and its metabolites. What would be great is the input of a biochemist on this matter.

    Have a nice day :wave:
  13. 1tokeovertheline

    1tokeovertheline New Member

    You made mention of alcohol in one of your post. Are you going to use it on your head? I know you put a sort of warning in the post, BUT a lot of people on this site are desperate and will dump all kinds of stuff on their heads in an attempt to pass. I am sure you have read some these. It MAY be OK to put it on your head, but is it necessary? Somebody else suggested that you do an experiment, so why don't you make a method according to your chemistry background on your head. You have an upcoming hair test. Use a method consistantly and see if you pass/fail. Post the results and see what happens. Who knows you may be the next MacCujo.
  14. cyclops

    cyclops New Member

    I plan on trying the rubbing alcohol method myself in the day or so and will let you know what happens to my hair - my test isn't for another month but I am curious to see if this alcohol has any deleterous effects.
    The stuff you can buy at stores is 70% alcohol, 30% water - this is only 10% more concentrated than the hair growth formulas which are known to be safe to use. And think about this - rubbing alcohol is used for sterilization purposes and can be used directly on cuts etc. The more I think about this, the more likely it seems that rubbing alcohol can't possibly do any harm other than dry out your hair (and can this be any worse than the effects of acetic acid and Laundry detergent on the hair?).
    Incidently, the Clean and Clear deep cleaning astringent with 2% salicyclic acid (in otherwords, 2% Aspirin) contains 40% alcohol (they don't specify which one - usually alcohol refers to ethanol)......
  15. intrepeds

    intrepeds New Member

    very interesting points. thanks for sticking around and trying to get to the bottom of this also. i have a few years of organic chemistry experience although i'm no chemist (from college).
    mac's method is pretty much, from a general chemical point of view:
    1.acetic acid
    2.alcohol + salicyclic acid
    3.soap detergent to clean these chemicals away and stop the reaction
    4.aloe shampoo to keep hair healthy after this process

    sounds like the mac method is a do-it-yourself chemical experiement on one's head...hmmm. makes alot more sense when i look at it this way....

    -chubaka (more hairy than king kong) :cool:
  16. cyclops

    cyclops New Member

    Rubbing alcohol update

    Okay, I washed my hair today with rubbing alcohol and I DON'T recommend it. It didnt do anything bad to my hair but the fumes were extremely overpowering even though I was in a well vented room w/fan on full etc.....
  17. 1tokeovertheline

    1tokeovertheline New Member

    Thanks for letting people know.
  18. nsammon68

    nsammon68 New Member

    Well I know Ultra swim

    SwimOutlet.com - The Web's Most Popular Swim Shop! men's and women's swimwear, swim gear, swim store

    contains propylene glycol and disodium EDTA and is only $6.50 a bottle $4.50 on sale also heet like you pour in your gas tank in the winter to remove water contains pure methanol I can't remember if ir is the yellow or red bottle though the other contains pure alchol.
    Anyways this is my first post so don't me too bad I was just trying to through out some possible sources.:D
  19. 1tokeovertheline

    1tokeovertheline New Member

    The Ultra Swim might be something to check into. The dry gas has already been suggested and also I think someone used it. Methanol is NOT for dumping on your head. Do a search online for MSDS and type in methanol, then see if you would dump it on your head. I wouldn't.;)
  20. nsammon68

    nsammon68 New Member

    No I would not want to use methanol myself. I was just suggesting a source.I am using the ultra swim instead of aloe or nexus. I read a few years ago a detox shampoo
    advertise that thier formula was orginaly made to remove chlorine from hair for swimmers.Then I found this it has a lot of chemicals in it
    Sodium Laureth Sulfate
    coca midopropyl
    sodium lauroamphoacetate
    urea
    polysorbate 20
    coca glucoside
    glyceryl oleate
    citric acid
    sodium thiosulfate
    propylene glycol
    diazolidinyl
    urea
    methylparaben
    propylparaben
    sodium bicarbonate
    tocopheryl acetate
    glycern
    sodium chloride
    disodium edta
    polyquaternium
    aloe barbadness gel
    fragrance
    I get random hair test I haven't smoked for a couple of years took a chance and smoked a couple. Wish I hadn't but I did and will use ultra swim everyday for the next 90 days.
    after 2 weeks will use root clean the one product I know from past expirence has worked for me . But am condiserding doing the MacCujo instead 2 or 3 times a week for 90 days.I have some root clean in my locker at work alot of times they tell you about 3 hours before you take the test theres a chance I could use it before hand. any way I am hoping there won't be any test till after the first of the year or my name just won't come up. I wish I had some experince with the ultra swim to post but I don't I just belive it would help. It would be cool to find a shampoo that was cheap enough to use everyday and still smoke .

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