Why medical marijuana is bad medicine...

Discussion in 'Medicinal Marijuana' started by Mission62, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. Mission62

    Mission62 New Member

    Okay, I know I am going to probably get slammed for this but it is something I wanted to discuss. I see a few problems with medical marijuana here in California and think it brings up some really serious issues.

    a. The way it is dispensed, at least here in California, is more like going to a bar or candy store than going to a pharmacy. There are sooo many varieties and one major frustration is when I find a strain that seems to work well, I can never guarantee it will be there the next time. Thus far I have found that AfGooey and Lime work really well for my pain but there is no knowing if they will have it next week. It depends on the grower. This alone makes it look more like recreational use than medical use.

    b. While many of the people behind the counter are quite knowledgeable, none are required to have any medical training and so their answers vary greatly and are based more on personal experience than on any science. I should note that the facility I frequent is considered to be one of the best and for the most part they do an excellent job but the truth is they cannot reliably answer medical questions. They are more attuned to which variety will get you higher.

    c. It would seem that many doctors are simply out to make money off of the medical ID card system. I walked in and they were ready to give me the card so long as I paid. They didn't really seem to care what the medical need was. I had to push to get answers as to why I should or should not try it and I have found it to be common. I refused to pay till I found a good doc that would treat the visit as a office visit and not just as a card referral and discuss other treatments.

    d. In comparing notes with other users here in California, I have noted that it gets prescribed for just about anything which perhaps relates back to item c. Actually that's not true. It gets prescribed for ANY complaint here and I fear this diminishes it's usefulness for those that it really helps.
    e. There is NO required followup with your physician. You get your ID for a year and no doctor that I have seen requires you to follow up to see how your doing. For most narcotic prescriptions, at least with my pain killers, I am required to follow up with my doc to continue getting the prescriptions.

    f. Can I claim it as an expense on my taxes? I can all my other prescriptions but being it's still illegal to the feds what happens if I put it on my income taxes as a valid medical expense? Has anyone tried this? I can tell you the people at H&R Block can't. And the stuff ain't cheap either.

    Okay, I have probably gotten in too far with too many issues. But my fear is valid. Marijuana has helped me more than other drugs but I fear it's not treated as a medicine and I fear it may be pulled if non-users really understand how it's being prescribed and used in California. Now this may change if it's made 100% legal but at least for now, California has chosen not to allow recreational use. It seems way too easy to get and MMJ prescription and for things it cannot possibly treat.

    You might think from this post that I am against MMJ but that is quite the opposite. I'd like to see it treated more like a serious medication and less like one giant party store.

    Just my 2 cents. You can fling it at me now.

    Cheers,
    DA
     
  2. DangerManG14

    DangerManG14 New Member

    so the weed itself isnt bad medicine, its the people behind the counter who do bad buisness. maybe weed is not treated like other pharmaceuticals because it is unlike any other medicine we've legally had. and i understand your concerns but its good that your taking action and pushing for more doctor and patient based visit to the dispensary. as for ur strains running out, i dont know, a popular potent strain is gonna be hard to keep on the shelf anyway
     
    2 people like this.
  3. Mission62

    Mission62 New Member

    No I think the people behind the counter are doing a good job, at least the best they can. It's simply the lack of any medical training and the policies in place which in my opinion are allowing it to be treated more as a recreational drug than a medical drug. But then again perhaps that is by design by those running the facilities who hope to have the drug legalized for recreational use figure the best way is just to treat it as such.

    AS for the marijuana itself, I'd have to stick with my bad medicine comment but not because it doesn't really treat illnesses. It does, at least for me. Marijuana is bad for the following reasons:

    1) As a plant the potency of medical components within the plant change from batch to batch. If MMJ were a manufactured drug the company would be under many lawsuits for lack of quality standards.

    2) It's often available as cookies, fudge, cake, candy and now even soft drinks. What other drug can claim that? It's my belief that the cookie that consumed by grade school kids and recently in the news, was probably a MMJ cookie given it sent 5 students to the ER. These aren't your mom's cookies even if she does spike them.

    3) It is the only drug which calls for smoking it. Now granted I personally use a vaporizer and it can be consumed orally but for the most part it seems that people smoke it. Smoking anything is just not good medicine. No doctor would ever recommend you smoke any of your other drugs even if they did work well that way and some do.

    It's more of how we've been treating it here in California. It really comes off as quite a joke. "Ah, you have your medical marijuana card, yeah me too, let's party."

    DA
     
  4. ToastyRoadie

    ToastyRoadie New Member

    It's because you all treat this wonderful healing plant as if it were a dangerous "drug". It's a plant and should be treated as such, not like something it most definetly is not.

    It's not a drug, it's a plant, drugs come from plants, it's known as Ethnobotany or,


    [SIZE=+1]Drugs from Plants [/SIZE][​IMG]
    Ethnobotany & Chemistry

    There are over a hundred chemical substances that have been derived from plants for use as drugs and medicines. This is by no means a comprehensive list of all of the plants, names of chemicals, or uses for those chemicals, but it should serve as a useful starting point for further research. For your convenience, I have listed the common name of a plant next to its scientific name. Be advised that common names are very imprecise and often assigned to completely different plants, so use the scientific name when looking for additional information concerning a plant.

    click the link for the list...

    Drugs from Plants - Ethnobotany and Chemistry


    As far as potency, you are putting too much into it, for example, did you know that it is estimated that "THC's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1,500 pounds (680 kg) of cannabis would have to be smoked within 14 minutes to produce death".

    How then can you say potency varies by that much?:D
     
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  5. DangerManG14

    DangerManG14 New Member

    first off, no dr recommends you to "smoke" weed. as you said, you can use a vaporizor that is alot softer and less harsh than actual smoke or you can consume THC through food and drink. as for those grade school kids, well they were in grade school. their bodies are too young and weak to handle a large THC potency. if i ate a weed cookie back in grade school, i'd most likely be sick too. and yeah, THC is in food appealing to kids but it's not FOR kids. the parent or guardian or whoever owned those cookies shouldve been more responsible. now you claim that most people smoke it. well so what. thats their preference. until you hear a medical marijuana patient complaining about having to smoke their meds, then you shouldnt talk about that aspect of medical weed. and its most likely that you'll never hear a patient complaining about having to smoke because like ive said, there are safer ways to consume THC. You maybe right about how it's treated more like a recreational drug than a med but hey, as long as you're getting relief from you're medication, nothing else really matters. dont forget all the other pharmaceuticals that are used recreationally. so if you dont like the policies and lack of medical training, you can switch dispensaries or go back to popping those pain killers.
     
  6. 5drive

    5drive Slacker

    Prescription drugs are abused, just like street drugs are. People 'doctor shop', lie, whatever, in order to get pain killers, tranks, whatever their drug of choice may be. In fact, with doctors easily providing scripts in order to submit their claims to insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., and 'internet doctors' rubber stamping scripts for people they've never seen or even talked to in person, prescription drug abuse is the biggest drug problem we now have, at least in the US. And in a lot of cases, people aren't intentionally abusing them, just taking too many, at the wrong times, or in the wrong combination with other drugs. There are a LOT of people walking around (and driving :eek: ), way more high/fucked up than the typical stoner, and they're convinced, in a lot of cases, that they're law abiding citizens doing exactly what their doctors want. They're still a danger to themselves and others though, if they're driving or operating dangerous machinery. Quite a few of them end up dead, for no other reason than so called 'side effects' of a single drug, or from taking what for them is the wrong combination of drugs- about 32,000 per year due to "Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs". Over 7000 deaths per year are due to simply overdoing OTC NSAIDs like aspirin and ibuprofen.

    If this kind of drug abuse is happening with legal drugs (and it is), what hope do we have of stopping prescription abuse for a drug that has a long history as a recreational one? While I absolutely agree that easy access to mj as a prescription drug does not help legalization efforts, or to help other states grant it status as a medicine, it's going to be really tough to 'get it right' when things are going so wrong with the traditional prescription drug situation. At least nobody's ever died directly from cannabis use. If you're gonna stay home in your easy chair and abuse a drug, mj is the best choice.
     
    4 people like this.
  7. GunCow

    GunCow Sr. Member

    I have a little beef with the MMJ dispensaries...

    They are have financial incentive to counter and be against the legalization movement. The dispensaries love the current situation. Many people deserving or not get to walk in and buy marijuana at a price similar to those on the street. They're like dealers through a legal loophole. Why would people working at a MMJ dispensary want weed to be legal? I'm sure that wouldn't be good for business.

    I've been to one that doesn't "sell" marijuana they just take "donations." I wonder how much money they "donated" to the grower for "local" produce. The meds are probably bought from patients with surpluses for a tiny percentage of the cost that the dispensary would sell it for. That's speculation . I have no idea how much the dispensary pays for its produce or who the produce is purchases from, but the list says "local"... And it doesn't make much sense to pay a similar price for the goods that they're going to resell. The probably pay the growers like 2 bucks a gram or something like that... Like I said I don't know for sure.

    In short, dispensaries are not advocates of cannabis, and they are not advocates of sensible policy. They are more like groups of legal dealers who pretend to be sympathetic to the legalization movement, so they can take advantage of the flaws in modern policy.
     
  8. Stoned_Penguin

    Stoned_Penguin Sr. Member

    Make it 100% legal, and the people just in it for the money can go and do something else. The people that actually care about helping others that need weed as medicine can run the medicinal shops.
     
  9. Mission62

    Mission62 New Member

    It does seem like it's probably over priced. I mean $60 for 3.5 grams? Imagine if we paid that for corn, potatoes or tomatoes. From what I know it's supposed to be easier to grow.

    DA

    Yes, of course it all gets abused and I think that is to be expected even with MMJ. However from my experience, and I have used a lot of pain killers, tranqs and other drugs to try and alleviate pain, the MMJ was just easier to get and the only one I could purchase in the form of a cookie or cake.

    Once again, I am not against it as medicine, I just hope that the way it is currently being dispensed doesn't cause a lash back and make it harder. I wish the dispensaries would take it a bit more serious.

    DA

    I agree but for the moment, the laws of California indicate that it is a controlled substance and as such provides laws by which it can be used. Not saying I agree with it, just saying that's the way it is.

    Well simple. Unlike my other pain reliving medications, I get very different results each time I use it. Sometimes I simply get what I think is called "Couch Lock" and pretty much pass out for the day. This can be a good thing considering I don't get much sleep due to pain. However it is random and I cannot tell when it will occur and thus doesn't allow me the control I would like. I am learning to cope with it better. I have noticed that when the plant is fresh in the vaporizer I am more likely to get the couch lock but when it's somewhat used it tends to just address the pain. At least that is how the strain called "Lime" works for me. If I can't get it when I go in next week, well who knows. I may have to start from scratch.

    DA
     
  10. ZoZo

    ZoZo New Member

    It's weird that I'm able to get the same awesome "unknown" strain every month illegally from an illegal dealer who gets it from other illegal dealers that gets it from one illegal grower growing for recreational purposes. Yet it's not the same with legal medicine.
     
  11. ToastyRoadie

    ToastyRoadie New Member

    You know, I've always heard that indicas give you a body high while sativas will give you a heady high.

    What I've noticed from growing and mostly being impatient:blazed:, is that when I smoke the ones we pick early that have all clear trichomes, I get an extremly energetic clear headed buzz and get alot of stuff done:D.

    When I smoke clear to cloudy it starts to slow me down some but still mostly a heady high, but when they are all amber, that's when I get couch lock to the max.

    I've only been able to experiment a couple of times but I want to try the clear again, I cleaned up alot of shit that had been waiting for a while, lol, lots of energy the oposite of couch lock.:)

    Also, I use a small microscope from radio shack ($14) that's 60x to 100 to view the trichomes up close and personal.
     
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  12. Mission62

    Mission62 New Member

    That microscope is a good idea. I know exactly which one you mean.

    Yeah, I've tried the Sativas and the Indicas and as it turns out I only get the good pain relief from the Indicas for some reason. Thus I am kind of stuck with them.

    When using the vaporizer the thing I notice is when the cannabis is fresh I am much more likely to get high and really sleepy. In part this is good since I have real issues sleeping. Later as the plant becomes somewhat toasted I notice it is harsher on my throat BUT I do not get the real high feeling nor do I get sleepy but the pain is still controlled. This is great for when I need to be alert and at least somewhat clear headed.

    I'm looking to get another part for my Volcano so I can more easily rotate between fresh and toasted material. It's a slow process but I have to say getting the vaporizer was the best decision.

    Thanks for the suggestion regarding the scope.

    DA
     
  13. muttdawg509

    muttdawg509 New Member

    you're talking high quality strains though, 3.5 of sour diesel, or master kush is gonna be alot more effective than 7 g's of mids.....
     
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  14. 5drive

    5drive Slacker

    Dispensaries, like pharmacies, are in the business of filling prescriptions. If they're presented with a legit script, I think it's their obligation to fill it. IMO Doctors are the ones that need to take drug dispensing more seriously.

    More sedative and analgesic compounds are available in the high temp range. Sleep inducing non cannabis compounds like carbon monixide and benzene are also released at higher temps. For this reason, most medical users find high temp vaping more beneficial. If your herb is "toasted" but you haven't increased the temp, it stands to reason that you're not getting the "real high feeling" or sleepiness, since you've already vaporized all the compounds that are available at that temp setting.
     
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  15. RollingGreens

    RollingGreens New Member

    I live in California, i know a lot of medical marijuana card holders now i wont disagree with the fact that they just hand em out, BUT it does help the people who BENIFIT from the card, my friend has RA and some days he can barely move, so it just being available and legal is greatt! i know there are flaws but im just greatful its there.

    "Okay, I have probably gotten in too far with too many issues. But my fear is valid. Marijuana has helped me more than other drugs but I fear it's not treated as a medicine and I fear it may be pulled if non-users really understand how it's being prescribed and used in California. Now this may change if it's made 100% legal but at least for now, California has chosen not to allow recreational use. It seems way too easy to get and MMJ prescription and for things it cannot possibly treat."


    :)
     
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  16. medme

    medme Sr. Member

    IMO this thread has very good points on both sides,,, all this is new,, i go to the store and i'm just amazed at the selection.. but when i go back to get the same stuff,,they are out,, thats the story of my life,,lol,,, but i just try something new.. it seems to all work the same for me, just the taste is different. i live in Wa. and have my card, so now i'm legal,,, what my biggest complaint is, is,,
    when you go to the store, and the parking lot is full of rigs, and they are all FULL of friends waiting for the card holder to return with the goodies.... all i see (in our future) is cops waiting for us to leave the store in hopes that someone lights up in the parking lot,,, kinda like waiting outside the bar at 2am,,,(i hope i'm wrong)
     
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  17. sk8rstonerdude

    sk8rstonerdude New Member

    Well, great topic to discuss! Let's just say I am an experienced participant in this whole CA "legal" system.
    I am not partial to one club over another for any reason other than the fact that I've been there and done that.
    In all my experiences, they are ALL just in it for the money. They try to be hip and cool, use phrases and lingo they think is cool or smart, and sell you certain strains that they prob just wanna get rid of. They'll just agree with your opinion on the product. It's just a F-in game.
    Yeah, it's great a healthy guy like myself can go pay 125+40 for a card and growers permit. The card is cool, hell yea. The peace of mind is nice that if a cop came into your home garden, you can point at the form and smile as they leave.
    But my opinion: This is a Plant, let us grow the plant without charging us!

    Also, *quality of product at clubs in Nor-Cal...

    I was pretty excited going into my first club to buy some MEDICAL marijuana, what stoner wouldn't be?? I was gonna buy 3.5 for 50-60 wtvr. I was so disappointed, I kept going over the selection without trying to be rude. I eventually just bought a gram for like $17. This was a Top named institution, which I will not name cuz Im not like that.
    I can get better quality stuff off the street, hands down.
    After 5-6 more visits to dif clubs and disappointments w quality, I gave up on them all together. Why would I pay more for less quality???
    One time, and I am very tempted to at least name the city, I bought a gram of the best I could find there, got home, tried to break the bud, and it just bent in half...I finished the curing process myself and smoked some better stuff I got from a buddy (that was actually ready to smoke) wtf
    come to think of it, I have been to clubs in at least 5 different cities.
    I have found good product, but it was a 45 min drive, and $60-$65 eighths.
    I have grown some of the best I have ever seen, actually have quite a rep here in town for my skills.
    Long story short, its all BS and a F-in game. Until it is 100% legal and unregulated, my advice would be to support your local grower and just buy from him/her :)
     
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  18. Mission62

    Mission62 New Member

    I use a Volcano Digital set to 365°. I've never smoked and don't want do do anything that would, or could, be a problem with regards to my lungs. I am not sure I am even comfortable vaporizing but it does seem to be better than the edibles. Hopefully 365 is pretty safe. I know the back appears mostly clear when filled. And I am a light weight, I use only about 1/3 to perhaps 2/3 of a standard size Volcano bag.

    DA
     

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